There are probably a lot of reasons why I am feeling more hope. And there's a reason I am decidedly NOT and it's this book I'm reading. Meeting Jesus Again for the First Time, written by Marcus Borg. It's interesting and full of historical tidbits and Borg is really, really knowledgeable (although scarily named--BORG!) and I am liking the book immensely as a book. But I've just gotten to the part where Borg makes his case that Jesus was not divine. However, he says, this doesn't matter because Jesus is living proof of how people can be inspired by God, who is divine. The problem is that I find his argument so convincing. That's upsetting, because I want my Jesus to be divine. I want the Christ of faith, not the historical Christ, however inspired by God he might have been.
I have emailed my friend Mike who is the most devout Catholic I know and whom (I think) believes in the literal Jesus. He is writing me a response and I am hoping it will help me. I know I shouldn't need Catholicism to help me experience God, but it's what I was raised in, and it's the framework I know, and so I am going to go back to it, at least for a while, to ease myself back into the spiritual world. I don't plan (or really want) to go back to the Church, but I think I need a numinous moment, the kind Borg writes about, the kind he experienced and the thing about his book I find most compelling. I don't know if I've ever experienced God in my life that way, so fully, so completely. I don't think I've ever had that kind of transcendent moment (except the first moment I saw James, before he even spoke, when I was kind of lifted out of myself and toward him) but the closest I have gotten (other than that) has been at Mass. I need to be reminded of the holy. I need to go, this week, because that's the place I open myself up best.
I say that I haven't "experienced" God, but a spate of things has happened to me in the last few days, since deciding to open myself to Him, things that are almost miraculous to me in my hope-ridden life. An agent wants to read my book. I had emailed this agent back in the start of the year, and had almost given up hope that she would ever respond. And the letter came two days ago, right at the darkest hour before dawn, right at the time when I decided to open myself up to God. A reminder: that life can be good, and fun, and joyful, and exciting. I needed that. I needed it.
Secondly, I had been despairing about ever finding enough clients to make ends meet in my business, but then today another potential client got in touch with me and wants me to take an editing test to maybe work for their agency. After hundreds of resumes and applications, something, finally. And yet I doubt God's goodness? I feel like God is tapping me on the shoulder and saying, "Um, Cathy? What else do you need me to do?"
Maybe these things would have happened anyway, but they still would have been of God, wouldn't they? It could be that He's always been reaching out, waiting for me to turn to Him. This just happened to be the moment I noticed what He's been doing for me, all along.
The cloud has lifted a bit. Thank God. I mean it: thank you, God. Thank you for a little of my life back. Things aren't perfect right now, and I have the feeling I'm still going to require some medical help to get over this hump of my depression. But I understand that any lingering fear or anxiety I am feeling might be because of my human mind trying to explain something so much bigger than itself rather than God not being there for me.
O LORD, my heart is not proud, nor my eyes haughty;
Nor do I involve myself in great matters,
Or in things too difficult for me.
Surely I have composed and quieted my soul;
Like a weaned child rests against his mother,
My soul is like a weaned child within me.
O Israel, hope in the LORD
From this time forth and forever.
Or in things too difficult for me.
Surely I have composed and quieted my soul;
Like a weaned child rests against his mother,
My soul is like a weaned child within me.
O Israel, hope in the LORD
From this time forth and forever.
CS Lewis makes an excellent case for what is commonly called "Lunatic, liar, or Lord." That is, either Jesus Christ was insane, or he was a filthy liar who deserved death for his blasphemous claims, or he was/is exactly what he claimed: God incarnate in human flesh.To say that he was just a good man, or a good example, doesn't fit with the evidence. Often I feel that Lewis simplifies matters too much, breaks everything down into "either this, or that," but he does provide a good starting place, and his simplistic approach does help to clarify things that maybe other people make too complicated. If you're interested, I'd be willing to send you my copy of "Mere Christianity." Again, I don't agree with all his theological points, and I think he makes some matters too black and white, but he's a good starting point. If you'd rather not, though, I understand and no hard feelings!
ReplyDeleteI am so, so thankful that the depression and pain are lifting, and that God is revealing himself to you. Not in a flash of lightning, not in a triumphant conquest, but gently, slowly, like a flower unfolding to reveal the beautiful blossom.
(And on a side note, that's terrific about the agent.)
God is, has, and always will be there, here, and everywhere. It is dependent upon us to be receptive to Him.
ReplyDeleteThat said, it isn't easy to take a mind used to basing things on reason to allow our hearts to base things on faith. Like Louise said, God doesn't reveal Himself to us in a flash of lightning. Given our entire society's lack of patience and greed for instant gratification, we often don't understand why God's way is often slower and more gentle.
It's not that He can't do anything in an instant, but that's not always His way. We've talked a lot lately about definitions and how impossible it is to fit ourselves into the narrow box of a definition. If we are too complex and layered to fit into one box, why do we all try to fit God into one?
Like a good wine or cheese - or better yet - husband / wife relationship, Allowing the seedlet of faith to grow gradually makes it all the more dear.
Cathy,
ReplyDelete- This is Carl commenting but it looks like Anonymous isn't allowed so Louise is letting me use her account. This post is a day late so I’ll post it here and follow up afterward. It’s long so I might have to post more than once. -
First let me say 1) that I’m touched that you’d thought of me concerning your posts and 2) that I find it immensely refreshing to hear of the bends and twists in the road that you’ve been hitting lately. Being brought to a place that makes you ask hard questions and realize hard realizations is a place that many people these days don’t really go; including many self-professing Christians. Your contemplations on death are at least to some degree healthy in my opinion, especially given that death is the last taboo in our society. It is difficult for people to realize the truths concerning death that you point out in your last post.
I for one have never struggled with whether or not God exists – which it almost sounds like you are dealing with? (Please correct me if I’m wrong.) Growing up as a teenager I was fine with him existing and that Jesus died on the cross to pay the penalty for sin, etc. - what Adrienne well pointed out earlier - since that’s what I grew up with. But I had a serious problem accepting that I had to do anything about it except know that it was true, and lived my life the way I wanted (which was quite a wreck by the way). The problem as I’ve come to realize (a long story of God’s grace in my life 10 years ago) is that if God exists (as I’d believed) and if he is the good creator (as almost anyone believes who believes that he exists, and is Jew, Muslim or Christian) then there are certain demands that he demands by virtue of being the all-powerful creator. First and foremost is to acknowledge him as creator; the one who, since he is creator, is the only source of that creating life and so we must depend completely upon him. (I couldn’t have articulated it like this 10 years ago.) So, as a teenager, to act as if I didn’t need him but to depend on my own logical capabilities for how to live this life was to, in essence, act as if he didn’t exist. (Again, it looks like this is your struggle but please correct me if I’m wrong.)
So, your rationalizing of the divine seems to strike a chord with my own experiences. As this issue is something I’ve pursued a bit in the last few years and learned a lot from many people, I hope I can offer a few helpful (and rational) thoughts:
First, I think it is worth noting that science in general has made claims for itself higher than what it can deliver. Does it really hold a purely objective viewpoint? Does the fact that Darwin and other leading evolutionists of his day actually sought to deny God and develop a corresponding science clear them of the subjective chains of faith/religion? Does denying God out of hand clear the clouds of our horizon to view with lucidity whether or not God exists? We certainly can’t prove that God exists, but we certainly can’t prove that he doesn’t. It’s possible that it’s easiest to disprove God when we assume he doesn’t exist. And while many scientists of today insist there is no God, many philosophers and some scientists (Christian and non-Christian alike) would soundly argue that he does.
- Continued -
ReplyDeleteSecond, there is no reason to think that reason/logic and faith are mutually exclusive. We are very finite beings, growing and existing for only a short period of time and then whisked away by death. During that short period of time, our understanding can only reach so far for even the greatest thinkers. Of course, Christians (and Jews) would add that we are sinners and so our understanding is bound even further by the sin and darkness we dwell in. Often our pride gets the best of us and our understanding is halted because we think we’ve already got it all figured out. So there’s only so far reason/logic can take us by itself. What is mutually exclusive is making God God and making reason/logic God. A better way forward is letting our faith inform our reason and our reason inform our faith. Faith in God, though can’t be proven, is very reasonable and in many ways makes the best sense of this world (many books have been written to show this).
Third, it is appropriate that God can’t simply be proven. As I read recently, “We do not know independently. For God to structure revelation of his truth to accommodate such a desire would be to foster the sin/idolatry in attempting to be like God, which the gospel frees us from. His self-disclosure is sufficiently clear to those who walk by faith. What is required is humility seeking godliness in order to grow in our understanding of God who says “This is the one I esteem: he who is humble and contrite in spirit, and trembles at my word” (Isa. 66:2).”
I apologize for writing a book…maybe I should start my own blog! Hopefully I don’t sound too preachy, just hoping to give some useful thoughts in your struggle. In the end I think it’s important to realize a few things. Given the intimacy of a God who creates in the first place, it’s reasonable that he should reveal himself (the Bible) to his creation. That revelation states that God is creator, that as creator-God he is to be honored as such, that since his creation doesn’t honor him there will come a day when he will justly judge them for not honoring him and that death comes as a result from separating oneself from the life-giving creator. Despite this God has promised a way to life instead of final death. God has promised a way for him to be our God and us to be his very own people. (Genesis 12:1-3, 15:1-6, 17:1-8; Galatians 3:7-9, 29; Romans 4:13-25) The way is made possible and his promises fulfilled in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. He alone is our dwelling place with God, the “God with us”, who alone reconciles us back with the creator-God (John 14:18-24, 15:9-11; Matthew 1:18-23). Because he lives beyond death, we who have faith will live beyond death…and his life was verified by numerous witnesses (John 14:19-20; 1 Corinthians 15:1-10).
I judge from your other blog that you are an avid reader? If so there are numerous books I can recommend for different questions/issues you may have.
- Carl again. -
ReplyDeleteI've never read Marcus Borg but recognized him immediately so the name sheds some light on where you're coming from. I know he is a member of the Jesus Seminar whose general scholarship and practices have been interacted with and criticized by many top-notch scholars (some of whom I have read). N.T. Wright has some good books interacting with Marcus Borg. He is a solid, highly respected, world-class scholar on these issues and I'd highly recommend him on this. He's Anglican if you're curious. If you're ambitious, I'd recommend the 600-page Jesus and the Victory of God. I'll do some research to find some others that aren't so voluminous.
I'd echo Louise's point above. It's hard to find much truth/confidence in someone who claims to be divine yet really wasn't. Is he still a reliable pointer to the divine? I'm not sure if Borg would play the textual criticism card and say Jesus' self-claims to divinity weren't original, but if he does, that methodology has been proven to lack substance.
I'll get back with some book recommendations if you like; and even read it with you if you want.
- Carl again, I remembered during supper that I wrote "textual criticism" when I meant "redaction/form criticism".
ReplyDeleteDear Carl:
ReplyDeleteThank you so much for posting here. The longer the better! I appreciate you taking time out of a busy schedule to counsel me. You are going to make an excellent minister, you really are.
I guess I should give you some background. I have never (really?) doubted God's existence. I was raised Catholic and for 20 years, I was fairly devout. I was active in Church life and I read the scriptures and served as a cantor, Eucharistic minister and Sunday School teacher. Then I guess I started questioning the Church, not the motives of the people in it, but of the organization itself. And my feelings about that, coupled with some healthy doubt, got mixed up with my feelings about God.
I believe God is, I believe that all things flow from God, but I am having a hard time believing that Jesus Christ was the son of God who died on the cross for me. I understand the magnitude of that sacrifice. I just don't...believe. Or can't. Or won't. I'm not sure at this point.
I keep telling myself that this is only the beginning of a journey to Christ. I wouldn't have married my husband the first day I met him, because I didn't know him. I have known of Jesus my whole life, but I have never tried to get to know Him as my Savior. We are only just beginning our relationship together, and He wants me to love Him, so I am sure if I keep myself open to Him, and love Him, He will come into my heart. I am taking it a day at a time at this point. "His self-disclosure is sufficiently clear to those who walk by faith." How I love the idea of this happening to me!
I have never had a problem with science and God coexisting. I was taught evolution at my Catholic school. I am able to think that God was the master behind the plan. But my mind rebels at the idea of putting too much hope in something that my mind can't understand. I have control issues, and I find it difficult to accept that God might just be too big for me to comprehend fully. I know that he must be. An ant can't comprehend, say, a building: it's just too big, too majestic, too outside their purview. God is that way, I think. I pray that I can make peace with the limitations of my human understanding.
I am going to take up Wright after I am finished with Borg. I would so appreciate a book list. And any Scripture you can recommend; it's been a long time since Sister Marie's religion class. My email is catherine . verdier @ gmail . com.
Thank you again, Carl. I know I am going to come back to this again and again. I really appreciate your kindness in reaching out to me. This is a foundation-shaking epoch in my life, and I am so lucky to have people like you and Louise and Adrienne to help me through it.
PS: I think you should DEFINITELY start your own blog! I would read it every day. And you meet some really great people blogging -- I know I have!
-Cathy
PS: Yeah, I find the notion of a non-divine Jesus nice and all but utterly depressing. But also: There is something in me that screams, "No! No!" at the thought. Borg does mention a Native American story that begins, "I don't know if it happened that way, but I know this is true." I feel the same way about Jesus. I don't know if He was divine but there is a part of my heart that at least is not comfortable with the thought that he *wasn't.*
ReplyDeleteBorg's book is incredibly interesting in describing the full import of why Jesus' ministry was so important and earth-shaking, the way it showed the flaws in the old Leviticus-based Jewish system of purity and holiness and focused on God as compassionate, kind, generous and fatherly. Borg also gives explanations of Jesus' aphorisms and parables within an historical context and some insights into what Jesus' life would have been like at the time he lived, and I am really digging that, too.
But yeah. I am going to move on from this book as soon as its over. I don't need to have doubt heaped on doubt.
Hey Cathy,
ReplyDelete- Carl again, hijacking his wife's account
A few things:
1) After looking around a bit, I'd move the Wright book down the list a bit. He's good but that book doesn't deal specifically with this issue as much as a few others I have on my shelves. Not sure which would be first on the list, but the two I'd start with in the heavy reading category are "Jesus and the Eyewitnesses" by Richard Bauckham (Anglican with a great accent) and "The Historical Reliability of the Gospels" by Craig Blomberg (no accent, not sure the denomination but very humble man). I would classify these as at the top of Evangelical scholarship. Just wanted to give an update. I'll email an actual list when I have the time to get one ready.
2) I finally clued in a little bit better to the issue when you mentioned Marcus Borg. But I think a number of the thoughts above are applicable to the question of Jesus' divinity. But obviously this issue is more complex.
3) I think I am going to start my own blog. Not sure when I'll start but I have been thinking about it for a number of months and I think I was just pushed from 98% sure to 100%.
4) I think it is always worthwhile to read those with whom you disagree; and if you're not sure, it's good to read another viewpoint in any case. So, especially given his popularity and the issues at hand, I'll pick up Borg's book and read it for myself to see where he's coming from and probably post on it whenever I get my blog up and running. It's times like these when I can torture myself not knowing for myself what someone actually says.
5) I know Louise doesn't post too much about it, but I like to clarify to people that my purpose in going to seminary is to get my doctorate and teach/research. My dream is to get my doctorate at a school in the UK, namely Oxford, Cambridge, Durham, Nottingham, etc. etc. (can you hear the drooling?) Not quite the same as being a minister though I know that's what most people think when they hear/read "seminary". Just to give a little insight into where I'm coming from.